The Yankees have had 5 catchers play 1000 games for them and all 5 were legitimate candidates for this poll. Elston Howard and Thurman Munson both won MVPs, Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra both are in the Hall of Fame and Jorge Posada is one of the best offensive catchers of his generation. I decided to take three from them and only one from the Mets. So, without further ado, let's get to the candidates (all stats from Baseball-Reference and FanGraphs):
Yankees:
Yogi Berra: 3 MVP awards. 18 All-Star games. 10 World Series rings. And from 1951-1956 when he won 3 MVPs, came in second twice, third once and fourth once, there was perhaps not better player in the American League--especially considering the position Berra played. 358 HR and 1430 RBI were amazing numbers for a catcher and his 704 BB to 411 SO ratio was simply amazing for any position. A .370 wOBA (weighted on base average from FanGraphs) ties him for 10th all-time among catchers with Jorge Posada (min. 5500 PA) and his 5.5% strikeout percentage is a great testament to his ability to make contact. Berra was a great postseason performer too, putting up a .357 OBA and batting .274/.359/.452 with 12 HR across 14 World Series. His best World Series was probably in 1956 against the Brooklyn Dodgers where he hit .360/.448/.800 with 3 HR and 10 RBI. Amazingly, it took Berra two ballots to get into the Hall of Fame and even when he was elected, it was only 85.6% of the vote. But he was finally enshrined in Cooperstown in 1972. (picture from Dave's Dugout)
Side Note: this FanGraphs graph below compares the three Yankee catchers and while Dickey's high may have been higher than the other two, all of them were remarkably consistent...and very good:
Just missed: Elston Howard and Thurman Munson (each won an MVP but neither seemed to be able to replace any of the three above)
Mets
Mike Piazza: There is only one Mets candidate here and Piazza is it. Gary Carter is in the Hall of Fame but he only played in 600 games for the Mets and they were towards the end of his career. But while Piazza missed some of his earlier years while with the Dodgers, from 1998-2005, Piazza was probably the best offensive catcher in the game. Piazza hit .296/.373/.542 while with the Mets and slugged 220 HR and 655 RBI. Piazza won the Rookie of the Year while with the Dodgers but amazingly never won an MVP in his entire career. From 199-2001, Piazza hit .309/.380/.587 and averaged 38 HR and 110 RBI. He led the Mets to the 2000 World Series hitting .412/.545/.941 in that NLCS vs. St. Louis. He made the All-Star team 6 times with the Mets and won 4 straight Silver Slugger awards. His .389 career wOBA was only slightly behind Dickey's career mark and his ISO of .246 while with the Mets was higher than any Yankees catcher. Piazza's numbers aren't just good for catchers, either. His career slugging % is 30th all-time and his OPS+ of 142 is 63rd. Piazza should be an easy Hall of Fame selection when his time comes. (picture from the SI Photo Vault)
Just missed: Gary Carter (not enough games with the Mets) and Todd Hundley (who ranked higher than Carter on the Mets)
So who do you think should be the best catcher in New York? Vote to the right and let us know!
Poll results for right-handed starters:
Who is New York's Best Righthanded Starter?
Mike Mussina | 9% |
Red Ruffing | 9% |
Tom Seaver | 63% |
Doc Gooden | 18% |
Posts
If Munson hadn't died in 1979 I have no doubt that his career stats would have been Hall of Fame worthy. It's too bad none of us ever got to see Munson play, especially against the Sox, because he and Carlton Fisk really used go at each other. I've often heard Jason Varitek get compared to Munson in terms of his grittiness and desire to win. Sorry Jason, you're a good player, but you are certainly no Thurman Munson (no Red Sox player will ever equate to a Yankee captain).
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I can agree there with you Ben about Munson making the Hall of Fame. I know that's a rare view to take among Yankee fans, but while Munson was great, I'm not sure he was ever going to be Hall of Fame worthy.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't mean he wasn't a tremendous player or captain. But I'm going to have to disagree with you about his career path. You never know what he would have done but history doesn't always look kind upon catchers with declining numbers hitting their mid 30s. And he definitely didn't seem to be "no doubt" Hall of Fame material.
I'm still going to disagree. He was only 32 years old.He had 700 RBIs and probably would have gotten over 1000. He also had over 1500 hits so I would imagine that he would have gotten well over 2000, maybe even 2500.
ReplyDeleteAnd if his plane didn't crash, he had every intention of moving to the OF or 1B the next year which would have made those accomplishments a lot less than if he had done it as a catcher. I'm not saying that Munson would not have been in the Hall of Fame (who am I to know that), but to say you have "no doubt" he would have been in may be a bit much.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I love this Munson story which I dug up from an old e-mail: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3403051
In fairness to Andrew, it's also worth noting that Munson was seriously considering retirement due to the fact that he missed being so far away from his family (and if I'm correct he was seriously considering signing with Cleveland to be closer to his family).
ReplyDeleteWhen I head to Cleveland this summer to see the Yanks play the Tribe, my dad and I are going to take a road trip to Canton to visit the Football HOF and hopefully make it over to Munson's grave. I picked up a little bit of new Yankee Stadium dirt from in front of the Yankee dugout. Aside from tourists and staff, it was most recently stepped on by the Yanks as they charged the mound in celebration of # 27. I'll bring a little with me and sprinkle some of it over Thurman's grave so he enjoy a little bit of the victory for himself.
I was just listening to Steve Somers talking about the top catchers in New York baseball history and I realized we left someone off: Roy Campanella. He never played in LA and was an anchor at the catching spot for the Dodgers during the 1950s. Like Munson, his career ended early due to a tragic accident (although Campanella probably had fewer years left than Munson), yet he remains a beloved figure in the hearts and minds of Bk Dodgers fans.
ReplyDeleteHis career stats:
Avg: .276
OBP. .360
HR: 242
RBI: 856
i saw munson play his entire career. he was better than fisk, but fisk had longevity. remember when munson came up the yanks were horrible, hes not going to knock in many runs with horace clarke and gene michael in the lineup, plus he hit in the #2 hole early in his career. berra , dickey, posada and howard played their whole career surrounded by great lineups. munson was a tremendous clutch hitter, mvp, rookie of year, tough, glod glove, quick release, and great handler of pitchers, remember catfish in 1978. i think he belongs in hof.
ReplyDelete