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| Rafael Soriano is thanking the heavens for the Yankees' deal (Newsday) |
And judging by the reaction of the rest of the blogosphere, I ain't the only one. According to the New York Times' Tyler Kepner if Soriano opts out after 1 year, he gets $11.5M. If he opts out after year 2, he gets $21.5M total. If he stays all 3 years, he gets $35M. To make this contract worse, after Brian Cashman says that he won't give up his first-round pick for any pitcher on the market, well, he does just that for Type A free agent Soriano. Maybe the money that Cashman didn't give to Cliff Lee was burning a hole in his pocket? Maybe he was getting bored? Maybe Scott Boras and Cash hadn't done much business lately?
Is it the draft pick, the years, the money or Soriano a friend asked? How about all four of those. I don't particularly love Soriano, the draft pick is an extremely high cost for a middle reliever, the years (and opt-out clause) are not friendly to the team, and the money is ridiculous for a non-starter not named Mariano Rivera.
Joe Pawlikowski of River Ave Blues put it best: "The draft pick doesn’t bother me as much as the contract. The Yanks get an expensive setup man for two years before he possibly slides into the closer role after Mariano Rivera‘s contract expires. Though, as we know, you can never count on Mo to call it quits."
The last thing Joe adds is the most intriguing of this all: "The one thing I will add right now: I dislike this move less if it moves Joba back to the rotation."
The Yankees will be really hard to have late inning comebacks against but they certainly will need someone to get the lead to that point. Brian Cashman has insisted that Joba is a reliever but maybe this is like him insisting that Bubba Crosby was starting centerfielder in 2006 or that Mike Lamb was the starting third baseman in 2004 or that the Yankees weren't giving up their first-round pick this off-season for any pitchers left on the market. I've been advocating Joba moving back to the rotation and with a big hole at starter and now Soriano and David Robertson to set up Mo, maybe this is the time.
It wouldn't really be consolation for giving out this ridiculous contract, but as Joe mentioned, it would make me dislike this deal less. I'm just hoping that it's not true. Unfortunately, like Wright and Marte, I feel like this one will actually be true as well. It's "In Cashman We Trust", but I may not see eye-to-eye with the Yankees General Manager on this one.
What about you? Let us know in the comments below.
Update: Wanted to add Soriano's stats to show the other side of the equation. He's been good, but not worth the money he's getting. Again, the Yankees don't really have to worry about the money, but if they're going to nickel and dime Derek Jeter, maybe they shouldn't throw bags with dollar signs on it at a reliever who most people had never heard of until last season:
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | W | L | G | GS | GF | SV | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | WP | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2002 | 22 | SEA | AL | 0 | 3 | 4.56 | 10 | 8 | 1 | 1 | 47.1 | 45 | 25 | 24 | 8 | 16 | 1 | 32 | 0 | 2 | 94 | 1.289 | 8.6 | 1.5 | 3.0 | 6.1 | 2.00 |
| 2003 | 23 | SEA | AL | 3 | 0 | 1.53 | 40 | 0 | 12 | 1 | 53.0 | 30 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 12 | 1 | 68 | 3 | 0 | 283 | 0.792 | 5.1 | 0.3 | 2.0 | 11.5 | 5.67 |
| 2004 | 24 | SEA | AL | 0 | 3 | 13.50 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3.1 | 9 | 6 | 5 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 37 | 3.600 | 24.3 | 0.0 | 8.1 | 8.1 | 1.00 |
| 2005 | 25 | SEA | AL | 0 | 0 | 2.45 | 7 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 7.1 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 9 | 1 | 0 | 179 | 0.955 | 7.4 | 0.0 | 1.2 | 11.0 | 9.00 |
| 2006 | 26 | SEA | AL | 1 | 2 | 2.25 | 53 | 0 | 14 | 2 | 60.0 | 44 | 15 | 15 | 6 | 21 | 0 | 65 | 2 | 2 | 198 | 1.083 | 6.6 | 0.9 | 3.2 | 9.8 | 3.10 |
| 2007 | 27 | ATL | NL | 3 | 3 | 3.00 | 71 | 0 | 28 | 9 | 72.0 | 47 | 26 | 24 | 12 | 15 | 2 | 70 | 2 | 0 | 146 | 0.861 | 5.9 | 1.5 | 1.9 | 8.8 | 4.67 |
| 2008 | 28 | ATL | NL | 0 | 1 | 2.57 | 14 | 0 | 5 | 3 | 14.0 | 7 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 9 | 2 | 16 | 1 | 1 | 168 | 1.143 | 4.5 | 0.6 | 5.8 | 10.3 | 1.78 |
| 2009 | 29 | ATL | NL | 1 | 6 | 2.97 | 77 | 0 | 52 | 27 | 75.2 | 53 | 25 | 25 | 6 | 27 | 4 | 102 | 1 | 0 | 139 | 1.057 | 6.3 | 0.7 | 3.2 | 12.1 | 3.78 |
| 2010 | 30 | TBR | AL | 3 | 2 | 1.73 | 64 | 0 | 56 | 45 | 62.1 | 36 | 14 | 12 | 4 | 14 | 2 | 57 | 1 | 0 | 228 | 0.802 | 5.2 | 0.6 | 2.0 | 8.2 | 4.07 |
| 9 Seasons | 11 | 20 | 2.73 | 342 | 8 | 172 | 88 | 395.0 | 277 | 127 | 120 | 39 | 118 | 12 | 422 | 11 | 5 | 156 | 1.000 | 6.3 | 0.9 | 2.7 | 9.6 | 3.58 | |||
| AL (6 yrs) | 7 | 10 | 2.58 | 180 | 8 | 87 | 49 | 233.1 | 170 | 71 | 67 | 20 | 67 | 4 | 234 | 7 | 4 | 165 | 1.016 | 6.6 | 0.8 | 2.6 | 9.0 | 3.49 | |||
| NL (3 yrs) | 4 | 10 | 2.95 | 162 | 0 | 85 | 39 | 161.2 | 107 | 56 | 53 | 19 | 51 | 8 | 188 | 4 | 1 | 144 | 0.977 | 6.0 | 1.1 | 2.8 | 10.5 | 3.69 | |||
Posts
Sorry, I have to disagree with you somewhat.
ReplyDeleteI concede that it's a lot of money to pay a 31-year-old setup man, and a lot of years with the options resting in Soriano's hands, not the team's. And I know there's a draft pick price to pay, too. But here's why these perceived issues aren't so bad.
First, the money. It's just money. There's no salary cap, the Yankees have a ton of it, other contenders aren't holding back, so why shouldn't we spend it? The Yanks should use their financial advantange. And this ties into the years thing. You've got the money and it's not like they haven't overspent money or given too many years to free agents in the past. Plus, if Soriano also provides some additional closer insurance in case Mo goes down, that's an added bonus.
Draft pick hurts, no question, but the Yankees have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball. So can thry afford to lose one pick? Probably, yes.
Finally, the performance aspect. Soriano to Mo is a devastating combo. Add in Robertson and it's a heck of a 7-8-9 inning team. The fact is, the Yankees' shortcomings in the rotation are going to be partially offset by their strong bullpen's ability to shorten games. If the starters can keep the Yankees in the game, the pen can give the offense opportunities to come back. It's a big weapon. There's also the heir apparent / insurance policy part, which definitely allows me to sleep a bit easier.
Bottom line, the Yankees saved money by not getting Andy Pettitte and Cliff Lee. And given the dearth of talent out there, what better move could Brian Cashman have made? Forget the number of years or dollars, the draft pick, or the rotation which still needs another piece (Joba?). Just ask yourself....are the Yankees stronger as a team with Rafael Soriano? I say yes, and that's all I care about.
The Yankees are better, yes. But at what cost?
ReplyDeleteI'm not so concerned about the money. But last summer they didn't trade for Roy Oswalt or Dan Haren who were both money dumps--and who could have made the team better, especially in 2011. It's just unequal. Either they care about money or they don't.
The real cost is in that pick. It's not just the Yankees losing it. It's giving it to your divisional competition (plus the Rays get a supplemental pick). They were going to get a pick whenever he signed, but I don't like giving it up, especially in a good year in the draft.
In the end, it's probably not an issue because the Yankees can afford to eat the contract if he gets injured (and that is part of his past).
While I understand the point that "it's only money," that's just it. It almost seems like Cashman made this signing just because the Yankees had money to burn and HAD to spend it. That's a ton of money for a setup man. Yes, Soriano is a proven AL closer, but big reliever contracts rarely work out. You also don't need to risk an overpaid reliever being "unhappy" because he suddenly realizes in the middle of the season that he really does miss closing.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather save the money now and use it to absorb a starter's contract who we can trade for in July.
I think Soriano will be okay with not closing. Apparently Mariano encouraged the Yankees brass to sign him. This suggests that they may have some sort of relationship and Soriano understands exactly what his role is.
ReplyDeleteBesides, Soriano only became a full time closer in 2009 so I'm not sure how attached he is to the job.
Glenn, the good part is that if Soriano misses closing so much, he can opt out after the first year of a the deal. It would actually then be OK, I guess, since the risk isn't all that high (and the Yankees could get that first round pick back a year later).
ReplyDeleteI don't like Grant Balfour that much but this is an interesting idea from Buster Olney: "@Buster_ESPN: Pure speculation: Would it make sense now for NYY to sign Grant Balfour, too? He wouldn't cost them a No. 1 pick, because of Soriano deal."
The $ is irrelevant, and should not be part of the discussion. Your ticket prices do not go up because they have a higher pay roll. Drop it. I agree with most of what Jay said. it makes them stronger. Draft picks don't mean much, they can buy established players at will so not a big deal. Boston got a lot better this off season and the Yanks need to improve. Looks like a good move, as far as numbers. This guy does not have a lot of innings on his arm, and definetely better then having given kerry Wood slightly less $ to do the same job. I like it. Now I wish they would open the wallet and get a great bench guy. I say how about Vlad on a 1 year deal to DH--- would be better then Jorge and only place we can really upgrade the line-up. We need to score a lot of runs with our starters. How many teams fans would be thrilled that thye just signed the leading saves guy from 2010???
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts:
ReplyDeleteOn the surface, there is no doubt that for the short term, this makes them a stronger team. Given their uncertainty with starting pitching, they feel their best option right now is to try to shorten games with their bullpen. No doubt their bullpen is stronger.
In terms of the money, it's rather irrelevant, although surprising given Brian Cashman's reluctance to want to give big money to relievers (would Kerry Wood not have been able to fill this role for less money).
However, there are several reasons not to love this deal. First, Soriano is no spring chicken at the age of 31. Given the fact that Rivera just re-signed for another two years, Soriano wouldn't even really get the opportunity to be the full time closer until he's 34 years old. Hard throwing right-handed relievers usually don't get better with age. Second, the draft pick. Not only do they lose a draft pick, but they lose it to a division rival (and if I'm correct, since the Yankees finished behind the Rays, the Rays will have another pick that ranks higher than their own). If you're gonna give up a draft pick, do you really want to give it up for a setup man? The signing just seems to go against everything Brian Cashman has stood for.
It definitely creates an interesting question for Joba, who Cashman insists is now a full time reliever (although with the Soriano signing, you never know).
Alex,
ReplyDeleteYou and I agree on a lot but I cannot get on board with Vlad. It's a terrible fit for the Yankees. They already have a full-time DH in Jorge Posada and if they wanted a right-handed outfielder who shouldn't ever play the OF, they can just resign Marcus Thames at a lot less of a cost.
With Cashman's remaining dough he should look at a right-handed hitting guy who can actually play the OF (Andruw Jones is my #1 choice) and a low-risk, high-reward starter (like Justin Duchscherer). Yes, and moving Jona back to the rotation.
On paper this makes the Yankees a better team but with the Red Sox moves this off-season, I still think they're better than the Yanks (on paper of course).
And the real issue is that the Yankees have been excellent finding set-up men mid-season. 2007: Joba, 2008: Bruney, 2009: Hughes, 2010: Wood. And with a pretty deep corps already, why overextend just to make yourselves a little better on paper?
Also, I think the concept of "shortening games" only works if you have good enough starting pitching to get you to that point. Otherwise, you run the risk of becoming too reliant on those relievers and blowing out their arms (see every setup man who pitched for Joe Torre from about 2002-2007). Plus, you wind up filling those middle innings with mediocre pitchers, which is a big problem.
ReplyDeleteThe only potential silver lining to the deal is that Soriano supposedly does not have a no trade clause. At some point in the season, could the Yankees deal him to a team with excess starting pitching that is in need of bullpen help?
BINGO Ben. And I think that's exactly why Joba to the rotation makes sense. You would basically need 5 starters to get you at least 6 innings with the lead. Right now, Sergio Mitre does not inspire confidence in that. Neither does AJ Burnett 50% of the time. Phil Hughes did much of last season but can he repeat it? CC Sabathia does. So would Andy Pettitte if he returned, but another big "if" here. Ivan Nova and Joba fall into the same boat: guys who can probably give you 5-6 quality innings. If you can get the lead after that, this team will be good.
ReplyDeleteBut right now that's a huge "if".
There's also got to be a huge "if" on Soriano's health. If he gets injured in Year 1, the Yankees are on the hook. The opt-out clause only helps Soriano and there's no way he's opting out if he's injured or ineffective.
Anyone have a clue as to Joba's arm strength or overall physical fitness (or lack thereof)? He hasn't started a game since 2009. Even if the Yankees wanted to put him back in the rotation, would his arm be ready by Opening Day?
ReplyDeleteIf the Yankees want to revisit Joba's potential as a starting pitcher, then he would probably need an extended stint in the minors to stretch out his arm.
ReplyDeleteI honestly believe that Joba never had enough time at Triple-A or in the minors, period, where he could focus more on repeating his delivery than getting people out.
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2011/01/answering-some-doubts-on-soriano-24332
ReplyDeleteJust saw this, worth 30 seconds of your life u will never get back.
The reason i like Vlad is that he could fill the Strawberry role in big spots and in the playoffs. Pitchers fear him. He has proven to be clutch and have monster hits in playoffs and other big spots, and who is to say jorge will be healthy--- the guy is falling apart. Vlad vs. Thames..... I'll take Vlad. it ain't my $ and the Steinbrenners skirted paying a few hundred million in estate taxes (R.I.P. George). As far as Joba, give him a shot to win a starter job, no one wants him in a trade.
Well, Grant Balfour signed with Oakland for 2 years, $8.1 million so that option (a possible Yankee signing that Buster Olney suggested and Andrew disliked) is officially out the window.
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6022007