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| Joba's role has been a debate on NYaT from the beginning (Star-Ledger) |
The issue is that while the Yankees seemed to have handled Phil Hughes' transisition to the Majors well (though the jury is still out on that--we'll see after an increased workload this year), they totally bungled Joba. I don't think Jay or anyone would disagree with me on that. He was a reliever, then a starter, then they had him start the first 3 innings of a game, then the shut him down, then he was a reliever, and now he's sort of in limbo. It's tough to be that age and be jerked around like that. I also think that people look poorly upon the season Joba was truly given a chance to start because of how the season ended. Look at his starts before they started skipping him and he was a different pitcher.
Unfortunately, it looks like we'll never know if Joba could have been another Roy Halladay, Zack Greinke or Johan Santana--three pitchers who started as relievers and after a rough start in the rotation, made the transition work. I don't know if it's truly that arm injury or just an organizational-wide mental block against Joba after he burst onto the scene as a dominant bullpen arm. Maybe he'll have to be traded to realize that potential or maybe he's just another Aaron Heilman.
But as I do with every topic here, I'm leaving this open to debate so hit the comments and let us know how you stand now: do you side with Jay and want Joba in the 'pen or do you side with me and wanted to see how he would have worked out as a starter. And if he stays in the bullpen, what role will he have there this year? Fire away!
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In the pen, he is a not gunna have a big role since they got Soriano. You have Robertson, Soriano, and Mo. So at best Joba is the #4 guy in the pen. His velocity is down since the injury and that tells it all. I still like him and it may be a blessing that Girardi has lost some confidence so he can't completely blow out his arm. If he is good enough to win a job then he should be allowed to start BUT I am pretty sure he will not be given this opportunity.
ReplyDeleteI blame that wuss Joe Torre for not putting up a stink in that Cleveland "BUG" playoff game and ruining Joba from thence forth. Would Billy Martin have sat on his ass while the bugs ate his pitcher alive? Lou Piniella? Casey Stengel? Even Joe Girardi would have done something, I hope. Them bugs were a life changing event for poor old JOBA! Damn that mistake on the lake known as Cleveland!
Torre said the biggest mistake he ever made while manager was not pulling the team off the field in Cleveland. However, to say that it was that event that ruined him is a pretty far reach. Joba pitched great out of the pen to start 2008.
ReplyDeleteWhat ruined him is exactly what Cashman referenced - the injury in Texas. However, some feel that the shoulder injury was probably inevitable at some point.
On a side note, much is made out of the bug incident in Cleveland. What we forget is that the Indians had no problem playing through the same conditions. If insects are responsible for ruining the career of Joba Chamberlain then he's got some pretty thin skin.
Andrew, I totally agree that the Yankees bungled Joba in the earliest, most vulnerable part of his career. Had they handled him properly, we might not be having this conversation. Alas, based entirely on what Cashman is saying, it looks like Joba will stay in the bullpen.
ReplyDeleteHowever, here is one scenario in which he could become a starter in 2011. Since I wrote the LoHud post, Andy Pettitte officially retired, leaving 2 gaping holes in the rotation. The bullpen is also looking solid with 2-3 lefties (Feliciano, Logan, and Marte) and Robertson, Brackman/Sanchez, Soriano, and Mariano. Suppose all of that depth makes Joba unnecessary and irrelevant. It's not unrealistic given the surplus of arms. You could feasibly stretch Joba out in Scranton from April thru May and maybe into June. Then he could start in second half of the year.
Again, this only works if (A) the bullpen is strong enough that you don't need Joba, (B) Cashman doesn't trade for legit 4th or 5th starter, and (C) Joba is physically capable, strength-wise, of pitching at least 5 innings every 5th day. Yet given Pettitte's retirement and the new hole in the rotation (that didn't officially exist when I wrote the LoHud post) this scenario is conceivable.
I still think that Joba cannot handle a full starter's workload and is best served as a 6th and 7th inning strikeout specialist. Even if he only gets an out or two, he would be very effective and valuable in that role. But that's just my view, I can easily see how others might disagree.
They are really gonna miss having a healthy Alfredo Aceves, who easily could have filled one of the vacant rotation spots.
ReplyDeleteTorre biggest mistakes ever were in 2004. This is often overlooked, I could elaborate if wanted.
ReplyDeleteAs for Joba, I wanted him in the bullpen since day 1 as he was electric. Then the Yanks screwed him up. At this point in time though, i think you have to make him a starter. The bullpen is now deep with Soriano so he is not needed there anymore. The team DESPARATELY needs starting pitching. Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle here, it's really one of the few hopes the team has at this point. Remember, they don't need him to be Doc Halladay or Johann, they need him to be better than Mitre. And that's not asking a lot. Since he was a starter before, he'll be able to readapt and pitch 200 innings easy. If he gets hurt, so be it...then we know he's a puss who can't handle the majors....
Joba is clearly the best option they have as a starter right now and I firmly believe he is physically capable. It's definitely a mental block. His 2009 season as a starter (kind of) was comparable to Hughes or any other first time starter and yet they refused to give him the chance to follow it up the next year (The spring "competition" was a sham). Before they started skipping his starts, or shortening them before the game even started, he was having a good year. He also has some history of dominant starts in 2008 too when they didn't place stupid restrictions on innings per game. Joba cleary has no role in the pen this year. The only time I can really imagine him pitching meaningful innings is when a game goes to extras.
ReplyDeleteIf Joba is just dealing with a mental block, why aren't the Yankees letting him work that out in the rotation? Because that's what they're doing with AJ Burnett, who has nasty stuff but can't put it together due to his mental struggles.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason he's not starting is because he is damaged goods, physically speaking. Cashman himself stated that Joba's shoulder hasn't been the same since he hurt it in Texas in 2008. (Tendonitis I guess...)
At this point, his fastball velocity is down and his stamina is horrible. Joba just can't go deep into games. At this point, his history of success in the rotation is overshadowed and outweighed due to his mental struggles and, more importantly, lingering weakness/injury in his throwing shoulder. So I'm just not convinced he's going to be starting anytime soon.